NVidia 8800 series a $700 coaster?

[Kiddyno]

Hi all. Something I was thinking about the other day while shopping. With people buying the 8800 series, especially the early adopters, people were buying on the fact that it is DX10 compatible so that when the games come out and Vista was released it was no problem. As is what the 8800 series is today, basically a good DX9 card and a useless coaster for DX10. NVidia not having drivers for DX10, and not planning until March/April, I believe the term they used was "To be determined in the next months".

I do not hate NVidia, but I do not buy their products. I tend to prefer ATI through all their problems with drivers and whatever. Now NVidia is in a worse place than ATI, especially with selling a card that is DX10 compatible(the first one so many people forked out un-needed cash) and not supplying a video card that is in fact DX10 compatible. Now in fact the people that did fork out the money to be the first, will be on par with ATI's release of the R600 and the 8400/8600 by the sounds of it
.
The class action lawsuit happening now against NVidia shows how much people really care that they wasted their money, and now going after NVidia for it. I would be surprised if they actually can accomplish such a thing.

Anyways, I am glad I didn't buy a coaster.. a expensive one at that.

[ElementXsoftwarE]

There is nothing out currently that uses DirectX 10, and the DX 9 performance of my 8800 GTX is awesome. When something comes out that actually needs DX 10, nVidia will have drivers for it. I don't feel I purchased something worthless, but I do 3D development as well, so the extra horse power helps me too.

[Kiddyno]

That is true, DX9 performance is very good, but only if you use a 24"+ widescreen monitor. I don't think it has good value for anything smaller.

[UnknownSouljer]

That is true, DX9 performance is very good, but only if you use a 24"+ widescreen monitor. I don't think it has good value for anything smaller.

Right, but no one buys a $500 dollar video card, and then plays with a 15" monitor. People don't buy high end cards because they want value. Obviously a GTS is way less expensive than a GTX, with a marginal performance difference, but if you want the best you want the best.

These sorts of arguments don't really matter to someone who's only interest is having the best performance now. I know people that bought GTX's, and if the R600 is fast enough, will jump ship to that.

Bottom line is, these value and money threads don't really mean a thing when talking about high end hardware. It's just about how fast money can buy.

Lets get real. There are no DX10 titles right now so it doesn't matter. It's clear that nVidia has DX10 drivers somewhere, or else no one would have been able to play Crysis demos. When DX10 games come out we can worry about its DX10 capeability. You can talk about nVidia's lack of ability with writting drivers, or you could just the same talk about ATi's setbacks with even being able to produce a DX10 part. Nvidia has now had plenty of time to throw out a refresher part to compete with the R600.

Frankly I don't really care too much wins the war. I'll just wait and see which one ends out on top when I'm ready to buy.

[abalavsan]

I think Unknown has it right, but I also should add that if you have a 15" monitor, you don't need an ATI X1900XTX either. Now, at the time that card came out, it was well over $500. By the op's reasoning, that card is a coaster since it doesn't run DX10, nor is it the top DX9 performer.

[edogridge]

I think the point he's trying to make though is a lot of marketing went into the fact that the 8800 is a DX10 part yet no real drivers are available. I saw it on their site, but I think they have some beta drivers on there since the 13th.

[Ra\/eN]

I have a 8800gtx .. and an ati crossfire... also ati x700 pro.

I know that each has there strengthes and weakness, The dx10 issue is mutable at this point, the average pc out there is still has a gig of ram and low to mid range card....

a majority of the operating systems is still xp, and from what I have seen in response to the tests, a lot people specially gamers will stay with xp pro till the next service pack.

the 10 issue in time will show its head, but like the pci express card, it will take time to gather steam.


I alos hate nvidia... and amd yet have 4 types of systems...

intel and pentium machines with

win xp pro.. windows 2k.. imac and red hat...

each serves a purpose...

my xp is for gaming...

and NO GAMER USES A 15" MONITOR..... thats like using 128mbs of ram for compiling code...

[UnknownSouljer]

I think the point he's trying to make though is a lot of marketing went into the fact that the 8800 is a DX10 part yet no real drivers are available. I saw it on their site, but I think they have some beta drivers on there since the 13th.

In my opinion, if we're going to start pointing fingers at whom is to blame for the lack of DX10 from software manufacturers (up to and including those whom write drivers) I would be more likely to point the finger at Microsoft. I'm not blaming Microsoft in the sense that this is their fault that no one has drivers, but more in the sense that every single manufacturer of everything is having to write new drivers for the OS.

Creative has problems with their drivers. Tons of mobo manufacturers of various chipsets are having to re-write everything. And of course nVidia and ATi are having their own problems as well.

Once again: people bought 8800 series card based off of what? DX9 performance. That's the beginning and the end. Sure nVidia hyped DX10 ability, but anyone thinking about any of the benchmarks clearly knew that what was being tested was DX9 games. Show me any webpage talking about the 8800GTX and its performance in DX10, (as of todays date in case someone 10 months from now finds this post again) and I'll give you a cookie. I'm specifically talking about webpages posting benchmarks using DX10 here.

The point being is that none of that exists. So anyone buying an 8800 series doesn't buy said card simply because it's capable of playing DX10 games, they buy it because right now it's the top performer in the games they're playing now: bottom line. If R600 pumps out more fps in a more pretty (read: IQ) fashion than nVidia's, people looking for top end gaming performance will jump to that.

Every company is looking to hype their own product in some way to get a leg up on their competition. AMD did it when they talked about 64 bit performance even though a 64 bit OS didn't exist. nVidia did it with SM 3.0. VIA has done it with processors and systems that don't use a lot of electricity or generate a lot of heat.

It's just marketing. Every consumer should be a skeptic themselves. That's why hardware review webpages exist to maneuver around spin and show benchies.

[BigLoo]

In my opinion, if we're going to start pointing fingers at whom is to blame for the lack of DX10 from software manufacturers (up to and including those whom write drivers) I would be more likely to point the finger at Microsoft. I'm not blaming Microsoft in the sense that this is their fault that no one has drivers, but more in the sense that every single manufacturer of everything is having to write new drivers for the OS.
Creative has problems with their drivers. Tons of mobo manufacturers of various chipsets are having to re-write everything. And of course nVidia and ATi are having their own problems as well.
Once again: people bought 8800 series card based off of what? DX9 performance. That's the beginning and the end. Sure nVidia hyped DX10 ability, but anyone thinking about any of the benchmarks clearly knew that what was being tested was DX9 games. Show me any webpage talking about the 8800GTX and its performance in DX10, (as of todays date in case someone 10 months from now finds this post again) and I'll give you a cookie. I'm specifically talking about webpages posting benchmarks using DX10 here.
The point being is that none of that exists. So anyone buying an 8800 series doesn't buy said card simply because it's capable of playing DX10 games, they buy it because right now it's the top performer in the games they're playing now: bottom line. If R600 pumps out more fps in a more pretty (read: IQ) fashion than nVidia's, people looking for top end gaming performance will jump to that.
Every company is looking to hype their own product in some way to get a leg up on their competition. AMD did it when they talked about 64 bit performance even though a 64 bit OS didn't exist. nVidia did it with SM 3.0. VIA has done it with processors and systems that don't use a lot of electricity or generate a lot of heat.
It's just marketing. Every consumer should be a skeptic themselves. That's why hardware review webpages exist to maneuver around spin and show benchies.

Very well said! There will always be a price to pay for stepping ahead of the curve, but this isn't exactly a new phenomenom.